Things I have learned about myself recently:
I am much less inclined than I used to be to see others who believe differently as outsiders, or to define “my” group as those who express their beliefs in a way very similar to me. At the same time, I seem to identify strongly with people who may have belief expressions very different from my own, but have core motivations/intentions very similar to mine, such as a Christ-like adherent of another faith.
I really don’t think I value defined teacher/disciple relationships as much as I value collaborative/partnership relationships where teaching and learning are taking place. Likewise, I think the most appropriate understanding of Jesus' call to "make disciples" is to facilitate others becoming students of Jesus.
The relationships I value the most are those where enough similarity exists to facilitate understanding, but enough difference exists to both keep me challenged and where I believe I have something to contribute.
Seems to me to be a good place to be, but I wonder if some in my own faith community would be comfortable with all this. I certainly hope so, but I suspect the reaction would be mixed.
The paradox of insular language
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We often develop slang or codewords to keep the others from understanding
what we’re saying. Here’s an example (thanks BK) of the lengths that some
are goi...
1 year ago
2 comments:
I can understand where you are coming from. But I do think this is where differences occur within the faith community.
I think you know me well enough to know on the "theological rights and wrongs" I'm pretty open to a lot of people viewing faith in different ways. I see "Christians" who couldn't be less Christ-like and "non-Christians" who look like Jesus themselves. I don't know what to do with the African who has never heard of Jesus and am very happy that I don't have to "do" anything with them. God is gracious and wise and he will deal with people the way he desires and I'm sure that will be good regardless.
However, your thoughts on teacher/disciple seem lacking to me (at least in terms of discipleship).
How do your thoughts on the teacher/disciple relationship play it out in real life. Are your children "disciples" of Greg Garvin or is the nature of their relationship different? Do you have spiritual children that you have fathered? You want to facilitate others becoming students of Jesus but seems like you want to avoid the appearance of "leadership" in that.
It seems to me we need master/apprentice relationships that lead people places.
Not that I think that is the goal of all relationships. I value our friendship as the type you describe where we are both learning and teaching and both benefiting from it. This seems like a healthy peer relationship.
But there are others where I know I am leading somewhere or being lead somewhere and I am painfully aware of how crucial these relationships are. Jesus teaching on discipleship was clear in a sense: Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher. (Luke 6:39-40).
This is the fundamental lesson I teach my children as then enter adulthood: you will become like who you follow. This may be a great and fantastic thing. This may be a painful and awful thing. I believe this is a universal truth. True for me, true for you, and true for every person.
If that's true than following Jesus is very different than having relationships that are more open, feeling like we can contribute, etc.
I have always found that following Jesus changes everything. Especially the nature of master/apprentice relationships.
Thoughts?
Greg:
First, I should clarify that I did not intend to criticize your approach, but to explain my own "mission" ideas -- although I can see where it could come across as criticism.
Do you mean that differences occur around these topics, like who is "in" or "out"?
I don't mean that defined (formal) teacher/student relationships are bad or not useful, I am saying that my preference is otherwise. However, I do think the charge to make disciples is about making disciples of Jesus specifically, not just disciples of our own. Again, I don't mean that as a contrast with your approach.
I do think of my relationship with my kids as more of an advisor or consultant, especially as they get older, but until they are adults I will have authority over them because I have responsibility for them. I think it is specifically that burden of responsibility for another (where it is legitimate) that defines authority.
My intention is not to avoid leadership in relationships, rather, I want to acknowledge that others' decisions and convictions are their own, and it is not my place to dictate to them what they must believe or how they should act. Perhaps this is simply the way I have chosen to interact with people. I don't believe this is shirking responsibility.
I agree that master/apprentice relationships are good and necessary, depending on the context.
I certainly think that following Jesus is far more challenging than most think, including those that express the desire to follow.
I hope this helps to clarify where I was going with this post.
Peace,
G
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